COUNTER PARTY RISK! client money safety

at thid stage it seems only exchange traded Binary option are on Nadex ( excpet there are 2 binary option on CBOT which are not liquid) And I would prefer anything Exchange traded over OTC ( due to counterparty risk) however I am still not 10% sure if NADEX is a TRU exchange! Part of my mind doubts it becasue

  • It is owned by IG group which is a OTC/ Market Maker in AUS adn UK
  • It is 100% owned by one entity not a member owned EXCHANGE like CME, ASX etc Althiugh Nadex says they have dedicated Market makers like( other excganges) what if the main and only MM is IG itself! In worst case scenario if a US SIPCV coverd broker ( Options, Stocks) goes out of business your money is protected Nadex is not covered by SIPC! Hence my concern… I have seen an OTC broker collapse in AUS and worried Does anybody know what the reality is?

Hello, I have seen similar post all over the internet. "true exchange", and confusion about IG and Nadex, OTC versus exchange, SIPC etc… Most of the responses are misinformed due to lack of information. Let me try to clarify and address each of the issues you have brought up with accurate “reality” information.

Nadex is an exchange regulated by the CFTC with the same exchange classification as the CME.

Nadex does not trade against you it only has an interest in exchange fees just like the CME.

A “true exchange” faciliates transactions between buyers and sellers (market makers and traders, traders and traders etc…) without interest in the position offering anonymity to the other side of the trade (not know if the other person is getting in/out winning/losing). This is how Nadex operates.

No futures or forex trades are covered by SIPC on CME, NYMEX, COMEX< or otherwise sipc is for securities. SIPC does have a cap though it is larger than the average traders account. With Nadex your funds are segregated. http://www.nadex.com/why-nadex/your-funds-are-segregated.html Even still, with Nadex you get massive buying power leverage so you don’t need a lot in the account. Therefore you don’t need to keep a large amount of money in the account just keep your allotted risk capital as you can fund the account in about 3 seconds if needed. Note this is wise to do no matter what type of account you have let your checking/savings grow. Having just your trading account grow and not pulling money beats the point of trading which is to make money so you need to pull it out to make it. It also leads to over trading as the account grows by trading to large and giving it back.

IG Group is a holding company (hence group) that own multiple companies across the globe. It is a publicly traded company. Meaning it is owned by members who own stock shares.

Many companies, CME Group (cmegroup.com) included, that are publicly traded own multiple companies this is not odd or irregular at all.

Notice CME is actually CME Group (holding multiple exchanges in ownership)

Example: Who owns Nymex exchange (ie where metals energies etc… are traded) ? Answer CME Group one member. CME Group Who is then owned by shareholders.

Who owns Nadex exchange? IG Group (igroup.com), who is owned by share holders. Same thing…So the statement trying to compare member owned to non-member owned exchange is not accurate.

IG Group is regulated the the security laws of the London Stock Exchange in the financial services sector, investment services sub sector and is included in the following indices Ftse all share, ftse 350 high yield, fste 250, ftse all-share (ex IT), FTSE 350 (ex IT), FTSE MID 250 (ex IT), Ftse 350. Making over 180 Million last year alone. However all it subsidiaries are regulated by the countries in which they operate (ie Nadex is regulated by the CFTC)

IG Group owns multiple companies just like CME owns multiple companies. It brought in over 400 million in gross revenue in 2012. It is not a small company that will simply disappear like the buckets shops that can be started for $25,000 in Australia, cyprus, virgin islands, etc…

Also i think you are mistaken IGindex/IGMarkets for IG Group. IGIndex/Markets are binary trading companies owned by IG Group for non-US Residents under the regulations of their specific country.

IG Group is not a market maker. IG Group does own market makers. However, there are very strict regulatory walls there is no disclosure of personal account trades or information between the market makers and nadex ever.

Contrary to popular misinformed belief market makers are not evil or bad. In fact they are extremely helpful. Hence Market Maker (Make a market) they help fill orders to both buyers and sellers. They bring liquidity to the market.

The market makers transaction volume is important as it gives them a larger “book” to lay off risk so they are able to have more liquidity and lay off risk so they can survive and keep making a market. Market makers who make markets on Nadex make markets across the world and are easily able to lay off risk. They do not care if you win/lose they are there to take the order and give it to someone else. They are there to make a market.

Without a market maker often you would have difficulty getting orders filled on futures, stock, options, and even nadex markets. You want to have market makers so you have liquidity.

Market makers desire to make money on the bid/ask spread (the difference between where bought and sold). A true market maker is a trader who hedges off risk by buying from one and selling to another.

Their goal is not to trade against you (for example as you may be selling to exit and they are buying - you are now flat and they are long so they are not trading against you as you exited the market - they now want to unload the long contract to a buyer by selling it to them.)

If the market maker goes through an exchange like CME, NYSE, CBOT, Nadex etc… they do not know who you are, they do not know if you are getting in or getting out, they do not know if you are winning and losing, they only know that there are this many orders at this price to buy or sell.

There are also other market makers coming onto Nadex as well soon.

However, trading OTC as you have mentioned is a different story. This is often when someone is trading against you and also has your money. When you lose they win. When you win they lose. As you can imagine this can easily blur the lines of true intent and can causes things to be manipulated and I do recommend staying away from any OTC bucket shop broker out there.

Fortunately there is now a regulated exchange for binaries in the United States overseen by the CFTC that we can use to trade binaries, and the nadex spreads with confidence.

[quote=traderji1]at thid stage it seems only exchange traded Binary option are on Nadex ( excpet there are 2 binary option on CBOT which are not liquid) And I would prefer anything Exchange traded over OTC ( due to counterparty risk) however I am still not 10% sure if NADEX is a TRU exchange! Part of my mind doubts it becasue

  • It is owned by IG group which is a OTC/ Market Maker in AUS adn UK
  • It is 100% owned by one entity not a member owned EXCHANGE like CME, ASX etc Althiugh Nadex says they have dedicated Market makers like( other excganges) what if the main and only MM is IG itself! In worst case scenario if a US SIPCV coverd broker ( Options, Stocks) goes out of business your money is protected Nadex is not covered by SIPC! Hence my concern… I have seen an OTC broker collapse in AUS and worried Does anybody know what the reality is?[/quote]

Thanks for sucha na detail explanation I have nothing against Market makers as essentila participants of a TRU exchange… I understand their role… no issues Neith am I saying that Nadex is a bucket shop WHat I awas referring to was Since we don’t know like CME, ASX , LME etc has Nadex got many wide spread market makers? or if IG markets, and other IG group entity are the major MArket makers! If that is true what one sees is Bothe the exchnage and the Market Maker is owned by same group!

By the wya on asid enote NOn US residents can’t trade with Nadex … funny thing is NOn Us resident can trade on CME Nymex etc through an FCM in USA …so and we are forced to dela with IG Markkets who in AUstralia is NOT a TRUE exchange…but a OTC Nadex had said they were going to offer the product via FCMs but as on today there is no FCM who offers thes eproducts

to clarify further If Nadex has IG group entity ( for example IG Index in UK or IG Markets in AUS) as THE MAJOR MM … then although the exchange is supposed to be above all and treat both MM and average trader equal … at board level people who run Nadex would be same who run one of it’s MM! It is like a company owning both ASX ( AUS exchange) and one of the major market makers on ASX! When you look at the Nadex and IGM/ IG Index platform they are same… All this creats doubt I hope you see why these questions coem to mind… there is a reason behind it

Hello,

You can not trade on Nadex if you are not a US resident being in Australia is it not available for you to trade so not sure what the issue is? Whatever the reason is feel free to share it. If you are worried about it then don’t trade it. But that decision is not being made on facts but fear of the unknown.

You are not forced to deal with IG Markets etc… You can choose not to trade with them. Nadex does want FCM’s and has several in process. Are they going to offer them yes. When, as soon as possible. US Regulation and the technology infrastructure is more complicated than you may be aware of and it takes time. But they are very much excited about having FCM’s on board for many reasons one being that it will oepn the doors to international traders. When you trade on CME etc… you do not trade direct with CME you go through a broker or FCM you are not a member of the exchange. With Nadex without an FCM you are a member of the exchange therefore that is why this limitation ahas been put in place on US only residents. If you really want to trade Nadex and not wait on an exchange then simply open a US Company and get a US bank account and you can trade on the companies behalf.

Also it still appears that you think the market makers desire for you to lose. That is how a bucket shop operates. A market maker is not concerned with you winning or losing. If they where that would mean they where in the business of speculating against you. This is a quick way to not be a market maker for long. Market makers on exchanges as stated previously desire to make money on the bid/ask spread filling orders and laying off the risk. They do to many contracts to worry about any single or even a group of orders positions by taking a directional trade they want to unload the risk immediately. This is why there is different liquidity on various Nadex instruments (ie corn is much less liquid than US 500, (just like on CME) Why? because of their ability to lay off risk is much less so they offer less contracts. If their goal was to hose people and mess with prices they would want as many people in the contracts as possible and all contracts would have the same liquidity.

If 2 companies where owned by 1 company and they where able to converse with each other without regulation etc… then your statements could be warranted. However, all the entities mentioned are separate entities. Whether there is one company that owns several or not does not define the relationship between the other entities as being one of conspiring. There are regulatory walls that limit and forbid communication between nadex and the market maker. The CFTC overseas this and the fines are very very large for violating them. So it appears you are operating on conspiracy theory assumptions about someone trying to hose someone. I trade daily on Nadex so i am speaking from both knowledge of how Nadex and the maket makers work and from experience of trading on Nadex on a daily basis.

MRM is a company based in Delaware that is the current primary market maker for Nadex. As stated already Igindex/markets is not the market maker for Nadex. By the end of the year there will probably be 3-6 additional market makers on Nadex as well. As volume increases so do the market makers as they compete for the business which is great for traders as that adds more liquidity (though this has not been an issue for me at all so far) and tighter bid/ask spreads.

How many can you list off off the top of your head without googline it on CBOE CME, NYSE etc…? Probably not many, most could not list a single one. It does not matter if there are 1 or 50 market makers so long as a market is being made and the liquidity is there. The more the better yes but the market maker on Nadex does just fine I have had no issues. There will most likely be many more market makers by the years end. There are way to many contracts being traded for the exchange and the market maker to have conversations about any specific position. Whether or not the market maker is owned by the same company that owns the exchange does not imply a direct conflict of interest if it did the CFTC would not allow it. MRM’s is and its volume that is does on Nadex is a very small amount of its total volume so it is not some big concern like you would seem to be implying. The markets follow the underlying, the settlement prices are independently determined by a defined formulas from a reuters data feed. Just as i showed the facts that other exchanges like Nymex are part of the CME Group. Nymex is wholly owned by one member CME Group who is then owned by share holders. Do you know for a fact that CME Group a very large company doing over a billion in revenue has no vested interest in any market makers? Seems like the statements made as facts are more based on assumptions that how things work on all exchanges. T

So please provide some factual information versus conjecture and comparison without generalization. As shown in the last post several of the points mentioned earlier where incorrect. I have no desire to convince anyone that they must do something. If you don’t want to trade Nadex, once you are allowed to then do if not then don’t, or if you don’t want to wait and don’t want to trade on IGindex open a us bank account and us company and start trading right away. I trade it daily and help people learn how to trade it. Don’t really have time to debate what if’s generalizations that don’t have defined outcomes that show a direct impact on trader performance. I have no problem answering questions but need more than a over generalized misunderstanding about how exchanges work and why this one is different from that one and they may conspire with market markers etc… Please do not misunderstand me as being upset I just want to spend time on helping people in their trading versus gong back and forth about the basic backgrounds of exchanges and market makers etc… as trading is what we are all here to do.

Darrell All I was doing was raIsing very valid questions…and I am not “operating on conspiracy theory assumptions” just that IG- Nadex relationship does not seem completely arms length… I certianly would vote for a CFTC regulated broker over a bucket shop (actually hope / prefer if Binary moves to a SIPC cover one day) However I think my questions were very related were they not! specially when there is so much bad press about OTC fx and even CFTC futures ( MFG going down) not mentioning the tin pot eu country based MIFD regulated ! Mushroming Binary"BROKERS" (READ SCAMS …) I have seen 4000 people loose 47 million because of fraud of a OTC Australian regulated broker ( a white lable of Saxo!) Hence the questions Neither I have any issue swith MMs working with Exchanges ( they are essential) My ref to MMs was when MM is owned by the sam ecompany as an Exchange

Any way thanks for the insight

Thanks for your explanation on why a non US person can tarde with FCM but not with Nadex…

It seems MRM is also owned by parent company of Nadex “Market Risk Management (MRM) is a separate Delaware corporation that is also a wholly-owned subsidiary of IG Group. MRM is a market maker on Nadex”

http://www.nadex.com/partner-with-nadex.html

SO although I might have been wrong in implying that IG Index a/ I g Markets would be MMs on Nadex I was correct in saying that the MM and Exchnage is owned by same company it maynot worry some it may worry some… lets agree to disagree

The reason i say conspiracy theory is because everything is based on your conjecture that if owned by same company something must be amiss…

You have not addressed how you know that CME, CBOE, NYSE does not own market makers that operate on its exchanges?

Being worried about something where nothing can be shown in live trading that anything is amiss is based on imagination not fact.

Having a market maker owned by a 9 figure company means that you can count on liquidity it does not mean you have something to be afraid of. The regulatory wall keeps it everything seperate and is enforced by fines and jail time.

Yes MFG had issues it was an FCM who bet on greek debt with customer funds so not really applicable here.

There are tons of binary broker scams out there they are unregulated offshore entities that are backed by very little. Nadex as shown in every way is not one of them.

You are not speaking from experience on trading on the nadex exchange have seen nothing to show that this was an issue at Nadex so stating that there is something to be worried about something is not based on the reality of trading on Nadex it is all conjecture…