Im frustrated but Im my own worst enemy!

S1 - Sanity - Psychology Psychology
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Hello All,

Well just another Friday evening a zeroed out account, ****!!

I have to start off by saying that I am super determined to make trading one of my income streams but right now I’m really paying the price due to my own poor self control, bad MM and ridiculous revenge trading.

I am really good at technical analysis as have done a lot of schooling on it, I can pick out good trades no doubt but I am trying to make so much money from so little in my account, I want everything yesterday, therefore I am risking way to much, my favorite example is last week on day I did 9 trades (probably way to many) but I won 7 of them and was at a loss for the day, this turned into sheer frustration and major revenge trading and a zeroed out account, if i would have been risking the same amount on each trade i probably would have been ok but I didn’t - so aggravating!!

Stupidly I have only been funding my account with small amounts like 100 here and 300 there and 70 here and just giving it all away, I have even gotten into trades that I could not close because i did not have enough in my account, it told me insufficient funds to do the trade so that made me really upset as well, I feel I know what I need to do or what errors I’m making but when I get trading or gambling should I say all my analysis goes out the window and off to running my whole account dry.

I have read some of these posts and it seems my MM is very poor for one and I will need to employ much more discipline and patience, if anyone can help or has insight please let me know, I feel i have learned so much from you Darrel as far as strategies and overall Nadex knowledge but I’m really *****ing this up on the mental side.

I am growing my $25k demo account for some reason?!?!

-atrader2

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atrader2- not to be harsh, but unless you change your mindset, you will always end up doing the same thing. The APEX system with its different strategies and MM, WORKS!!! And it works well…

But, if you are going to consistently do the same things that you know are bad, then you are going to get the same poor result.

If you are determined to make this work like you say you are you need to do the following:

Learn the rules for the system. Commit them to memory. Commit yourself to FOLLOWING them (No revenge trades)!! The most impressive thing I have learned with this system is that there is always another trade. 1 loss is no big deal, especially when it is small.

Use market replay to test YOURSELF on a couple weeks worth of data. I would recommend a less volatile instrument. Everyone wants to start out on oil or gold because of the great profit potential with the volatility, but that is like asking a 6 month old baby to run a marathon…it’s not going to work.

Get in the elite trade room. There are people there to help…and you can follow their moderators live trades.

Do all of this on a demo account… if you can’t make money on a demo, you aren’t going to make in a live account.

So, does this system work… YES! Are there people there to help… YES!!! Does it require you to make some mental/emotional changes…YES!!! If you do these things, will you be impressed with the results…YES!!!

Good luck and ask any questions you may have, Brad

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*Regarding can’t close a trade call the broker on that one that is an odd error. If you ever see that again then call them right away.

*Watch the 5% video

Risking max 5% of account / 6 per trade on Elite system - watch the power of 5%. You have to decide if you want to be trading and making money in a year. With the amounts your putting into your account this would be impossible to do. Your demo account is easier you don’t feel the pain and can risk more and could use proper risk management as it has 25k in it. So if making in demo and not live then go back and go what are you doing in demo that your not doing in live and are you doing it consistently in demo or??

*If you want it yesterday you will lose it all… WHY? Because you are trading to make money instead of trading to trade well.

********“TRADE TO TRADE WELL”

*Even with a 70% winning system you don’t know if the next trade will be in the 30% losing bucket or the 70% winning bucket. A course of trades overtime makes a % but a trade in and of itself is 50/50 Own the reality of this

*If you won the last 7 that does not make the next trade a good trade (this is when people think they are the RockStar of the markets and put it all on the line)

Just like if you lost the last 7 that does not make the next trade a bad trade (this is when people lose don’t take trade it wins - then they take next trade is looses - they don’t take next trade it wins - downward spiral)

*The P/L on your current trade has no impact on the chart

*Your account balance has no impact on the chart

*Your last trades win or loss has no impact on the chart

*AGAIN NONE… ZERO …ZILCH IMPACT

If it doesn’t impact then watching it, thinking about it, letting it influence your trading decisions, literally has zero impact you might as well be watching the weather in antartica to decide when to buy or sell EUR/USD

*Also you have control on where you enter, control on how much you risk. … you have no control on whether it is a win or loss - NONE ZERO ZILCH

Yes you may be good and win more often than you lose but in the end you don’t control the outcome

*If you don’t recognize this you will try to take control you will hold onto losses to long - you will close winners to early as you are trying to control your win/loss

*Humility is a requirement to trading - this is “the honest estimation of oneself, not an overestimation or an underestimation”

*You control entries - you control stop loss - and size at risk - you control the choice to follow rules - put rules into place and follow the system - in the end this is what you control

*With good risk management, proper profit management, and half way decent analysis you can then start on your road to success.

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On the 5% I am confused on one aspect, say with like 1000 to start, that would be $50 risk per day, or 6 trades at $8.30, now can you take trades that you risking more the $50 but make sure you stop them out if they are approaching your max loss for the day? if no then what type of trades are you doing because middle spreads cost about 50$ in some cases and premium collection trades cost more than $50 so im just unsure what I should be doing here. should i be taking just one trade a day? or buy/selling upper or lower spreads in which in alot of cases there is a 15 tick buffer before any profit is seen?

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Honestly - you should have a large account if you want to follow this risk management plan. $1,000 is not going to cut it.

The plan is not $50 a trade one trade and that’s it - This is the Apex Elite method risk management plan - with is 5% / 6 of your account size for a max risk per trade.

This would put the account at about $3k if doing say nadex spreads or binaries on apex elite…We do have people do the system with much less than $3k but that is the amount that is required to perfectly follow the risk management plan…(ie at $25 risk per trade x 6 = $150 = 5% of $3,000)

Those who do it with less simply understand they are taking on more risk with a larger % but have the plan to reduce their position size down once their account gets to $3k plus

You can of course use different strategies/systems etc… and you can always risk more, but the more you risk the lower your chances of survival in the game of trading - so basically be ready to blow out a few accounts faster and faster with poor risk management (thought they may be smaller - so they are easier to recover still hurts psychologically)

Note: Premium collection may have a $75 max risk - but we cut that to about $25 by using our risk management stop loss.

To be clear NO you can not just get out of the trade when it goes $8.00 against you and expect that to work. That makes no sense as it has nothing to do with the chart. It has to do with your P/L and your P/L should never determine your trading. (P/L is a by product of trading well, not a decision maker in doing so)

Risk management is in place to make your account survive. It is not in place to make your trading decisions for you (ie when to enter/exit)

You should not be trading spreads that have a 15 tick (buffer) to breakeven unless you have a very specific reason for doing so - ie straddling news - but these should never be used for outright spread trend trading - it is a guaranteed losing strategy if you do this

One trade a day for 5% is not a trading system and not recommended unless you have been trading great for 40 years and can live on the % of one trade a day comfortably…

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If you do one trade and that grows your account 5%, why will that not work? you say if you make your 5% stop trading that day?? so if I make $50 in one trade whats the problem? or if I make it in two trades?

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Am I right in thinking? granted the optimum account is $3,000, but if you start with $1,000 you simply have to take on more risk until you get to the desired amount to be trading more comfortably within the 5% system.

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You are confusing risk management with profit management.

Above your previous 2 post have been about risk now your talking about profit.

Risk is capped profit is not - i may have a single trade that made 10 or 15% in a day ( i just wont risk the original 5% i made) (I limit my risk and let my profits run)

We are talking about how much you risk in a day max and dividing that up to put the odds in your favor.

You are talking about risking 5% of your account - risking 100% of your risk amount per day on one trade - Try it if you want, it’s not a good plan as you’re putting all your eggs in one basket…i know traders who have tried it …I only know one trader (a mentor of mine that has been trading for 50 years) that only does one trade a day and succeeds

If i divide by 6 then i have to lose 6x in a row to lose 5% in a day and stop trading that is honestly pretty hard to do. this is about allowing you the ability to come catch several small wins, several small losses, a breakeven or two and catch a couple big wins to get your 5%… you never know which trade will be the big move but you have to survive to get there ($ in account)- and have the psychological where with all to still hit the button - that is the point

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If trading the apex elite system on spreads/binaries - on most instruments then 3k would be the optimal account size.

Yes you could start with less just understand you are risking more. You still need to follow the 6 losing trade rule or you will miss out on winners take losers and jack up your head. But also need to understand you will be doing so under more pressure as you are riksing a larger % of your account - ie 25x6 = 150 = 15% of your account on a day where you lose 6 in a row - though it is rare you still have to be ready for it and just understand the risk - when/if you get your account to 3k do not compound along the way ie at 2k etc… just stay at a contract size of 1 all the way there - and only compound from there 1x a month (ie % of balance as of beginning of month) - don’t get greedy and rush it - 1 at a time no compounding till you can stay in the 5% / 6 rule and even then only 1x a month

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atrader2-
Keep your head up. Get your plan together and don’t make it personal. this is my reward for sticking to my plan. I started last February with $500, drained it down to $100 just 3 days later and walked away. I used my trial account to test several strategies all summer. I found Apex Investing about that time and went to school.

I returned to my live account on September 3rd with $110.30. Plan in hand (sometimes harder to stick to than others) Used several strategies I learned from Darrell and cashed in big. On Sept 30th, my bank account was up $5400, and my Nadex account was up to $4150. Remove the emotions. If you gain $200 a day, you’ll be up $60K in a year.

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That is awesome!!! Way to claw back. It’s not easy but it’s the attitude send discipline required to make it happen

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Tgriz23 - this is truly a fantastic turn-around, congrats! Could you please brief us on which APEX strategies/instruments you used to get these kinds of results? I would very much appreciate it as I’m trying to hone in on being as effective as possible, your story is the best I have heard so far. Thanks in advance!

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atrader2,
I might as well put in my thoughts too, for I have been in your situation more than once. I am gradually getting a handle on things just like the guys above. Thinking beyond the actual MM part of it: look at this analogy:

Tiger Woods, Kobie Bryant, Tony Romo, Peyton Manning, George Soros, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Darrel Martin…these people didn’t make it over night in there professions. It was a lot of study, hard work, drilling, practicing, never giving up, keeping their eyes on the goal, etc.

Take a look at your own work or profession out side of you trading interests. How long have you been at it? Are you good? Could someone do what you do successfully in 2 or 3 weeks?

I also, want to make my support-income from trading (trading for a living). My big cognition was patience! I needed to develop patience! Use the rules. But fear, greed, wanting all right now is what was killing me. Hey if you don’t make 5% and only make 3% wow don’t beat your self up. Give yourself a congrats! Also if it’s toward the end of your day…Stop right there! Also, when I’m frustrated I’ll shut everything down and take a walk literally!

One final thing. Everyone here wants to see you as a success.

Best, from me too.

Steve

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Dopplerock - I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m an Engineer and most of this trading stuff is pretty confusing. That being said, I have always tested very high in pattern recognition, and that’s what I use. I tend to nibble around the edges, I don’t go for the “Hail-Mary” pass, just short 7 yd gains, if you know what I mean. I like the premium strategy, something that is deep in the money.

I do, however love the butterfly because I know one of the two trades will gain automatically, and can dump the other if I have to and still gain a smaller amount. The 7pm & 11pm FOREX expiries have been very kind to me. I’ll typically take 20 contracts on each side of the butterfly with a gain of $15-20 and averaging out to $700 gain. A couple weeks back the GBP/JPY and EUR/JPY were particularly kind, and between Sept 12 - Sept 24 I had 72 of 81 winning trades.

Now I’m learning A.P.E.X, and bought a faster computer. I made some money, time to spend money. I figure the more knowledge, tools and experience gained can only make me better. I did my first real trade using that last night and lost. I think I read it wrong, but will revisit some videos this morning, and try again on my demo account. Something I remember Darrell saying over and over again…ugh.

-Tim

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Watch the apex step 3 videos there are 18 of them and be in the room and mark up charts so we can review with you - apex takes a little work but its well worth it - for those in the room today i did a 2 hour bonus live only webinar in the room.

never know what you will learn in the room :slight_smile:

#1 mistake on elite - not watching the videos in order #2 trying to apply to nadex before you have the 10 rules down on the underlying #3 not sharing market up charts as you don’t know what you don’t know till someone who does n ot sees your chart and tells you what you don’t know (say that 10x fast ) #4 risking to much #5 trading to many instruments #6 trading live before demo #7 stopping when you have mastered system and not learning the simple style techniques i teach

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Thanks for getting back to me on your thoughts Tgriz. I also prefer taking profit in small bits, and my goal is to hammer down an approach that works well with my personality where I can profit on a daily basis. Sounds like you like to focus on ITM FX binaries. Honesty binaries have the bulk of my interest as well though when trading live my averages tank. This I gather is due to my entry rules not being followed strongly enough, as even with a $25 potential loss from time to time assuming I’m long at around +$75 or short around -$25 with an exit of $50 and not waiting to expire (take profit @ $5/$95) should be solid assuming I am actually placing solid entries. Regardless, there is a whole other animal to approach in the difference between live and demo trading. I do well in demo, but for some reason as soon as I go live that conspiracy theorist in me finds way to many easy opportunities to freak me out and cloud my logic, even with the P&L turned off.

My perspective is long term as I approach trading with APEX/Nadex as a profession, but I absolutely must hammer down something that works consistently as the bills are coming in while I spend my time figuring out what I like best. Some of the best advice I got from DM most recently was to not spread my focus too thin, as in only trade only one instrument and know the system inside and out. This has worked well as I found I was trying to draw on a few different charts at the same time, getting all jumbled up instead of broadening my view to more opportunities like I thought it would. Trade to trade well, not to make money (you will). Yoda speak right there, as it is wise but also the most difficult challenge I find in making/choosing my trades every day.

I am looking for consistent, relatively low risk, methodical, reliable, boring intraday trades that I can place all day long to hit my 5% to make a living at this. I’m close, but I suppose everyone is looking for slightly different ways of getting there.

Off to watch more videos and review my charts, on a Friday, on my birthday weekend - but hey at the very least I know it takes dedication to make it in anything, and I have plenty of that!

Have a good one.

Rob

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Usually when averages tank on trading live it is due to risk management being to high. (Being the risk is high enough that you don’t want to lose so you cut profits short (take them to soon), and let losses run (don’t exit when you should). The only solution to “sanity issue” is proper risk management.

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5% 0n $500 is only $25 so what i have been doing in real account is… Identify an extreme level, observe Stochastics, Enter position expire @ 4:15 offset to take profit at 25-35. Once a day only and I’m done! Add 1 more contract (2 now) when i reach $1000 do same thing. Add 1 contract every $500 increment.

My figuring out part as been whether to take a 50/50 or 40/60 i usually take close to 50/50 & if i’m wrong cut it short or live w/ it.

Now that said i have not executed this plan perfectly at all! Been greedy hung on too long with $49 profit to see it go down to +17 then -9 or -12. Yes messed up but i was done no matter. I figured it out because i HATE losing like that!! Next day i took a small profit +27 DONE.

Rockefeller when asked about how much $$ he makes each day he said “I would like to wake up each day having a little more then the day before”

I wrote that down so i can see it every day. I have a plan & i am working it.

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Thanks Darrell,

Would RSI or something like that be better then Stochastics? When i measure +1 Deviation down to Settlement…now that ‘expected move’ is what market participants believe. Okay…now, then i measure H to L in the afternoon, if this movement is within 10 to 13 points then we most likely obtained our movement already? Taking into consideration of other factors of course. Do i have my understanding correct?

On the 6 trades a day…Man! but i’ve been doing 1 a day for 5 or 8 yrs now. That would go against my grain almost. I’m a ‘one a day’ tradninstyle kinda trader.

Also, how do i add a ‘n’ in my username from trdinstyle to trdninstyle ? I will keep the forum posted on my progress from 1 up to 10 contracts traded, then to my next level at that time from reaching 10 contracts. Increments of 10 up to 100. I learn better in real then demo, my heart doesn’t thump in demo…more concrete. Advantage of 1 a day.

I will get there, i guarantee it!

You see, it’s not the destination that I am enjoying, I am truly enjoying the journey at hand. The building process.

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if 1 a day is working then rock on :slight_smile:

if you want to fade a deviation use the Vspike method i teach works great

http://apexinvesting.net/forum/technicals-128/deviation-levels-volume-spikes-calling-day-[video]-817.html#.UqDpXMSIB8E

Indicators in general are to slow - its all about price/volume/statistics…

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