Is it possible to use the ATS to set a Stop Loss, and if so How?


#1

I would like to set stops on Straddles or Condors at the levels indicated as “1:1 Stop Loss…” at various points on the Straddle/Condor calculator when used to analyze a possible trade.

Stop losses are not just one of the most elementary trading but thankfully one of the easiest to learn as well, so it may seem that the question should answer itself. After all, there are hours of videos on the topic.

And after watching them, it is my understanding that, yes, setting Stop losses on open positions should not be difficult.

In the Intro-Trailing Stop video at 4:08 mins, for example, Mark Skelton tells us that the ATS does three things, among which is not only the profit taking and trailing stops but one can “also set a stop order to get me out if the trade goes against me by so much…” That’s what I mean by stop loss order: a trigger price set below the market on a long and above a short to close the position at market.

But when I try to follow his example, the order is immediately executed at the current market 50 or 80 pips above Stop trigger price.

I have tried hundreds of these trades using several combinations experimenting with all four of the Trail stop Trigger fields, but the Stop triggers revert to limit orders on activation, executing without any pause to “monitor”.

The only exception is when the trigger price to sell close a long position is placed above the market. Monitoring will then go into effect since the order now behave like a sell-stop market order contingent on the underlying hitting a certain trigger price.

Darrell illustrates the value of these contingent orders in another video series on Stop Trigger window, but they cannot be used for stop loss functions.

Here is a screenshot to show how my imitating Mark’s use of the ATS for stop/loss functions fail to work.

This is a screenshot from Mark’s example as it appears at 7:47 in the Spreads Vs Binaries Trailing Stop video:

And here is my order on the same trade at a different but close price level on the same instrument:

Mark did not actually submit this order, since he moved on to another subject, so we don’t seem the order going into “monitoring” mode, which is a critical sign of success it seeks.

I however did activate mine but, like all the others it reverted to a limit order and sold at market well above the stop loss price.

At a different point in the same video, Mark points out that it is necessary only to populate the Stop trigger & Trailing Trigger offset fields to setup a Stop loss order, but when I try it fails.

https://content.screencast.com/users/Tooearly/folders/Jing/media/5d41ea2b-c2b6-4668-9293-c66acf76474a/2017-03-22_0723.png

Is the market moving too fast, prices too volatile or the spreads outrageous? Have a failed to clear my cache or update the browser or plug ins? Am I “fibbing” or just “too lazy” to close down my computer?

These orders are entered Bangkok time when markets are dozing; I am careful to ensure the Offset is larger that the bid/ask spread. I’ve reinstalled the plug-ins, and my mother taught me its wrong to be lazy or tell lies.

Help desk refuses to answer me, saying its not the sort of question one should be asking them and suggesting I haven’t done my homework.

And elsewhere as well great silence seems to hoover over the subject Stop/losses as people on the forum raise similar questions and wait in vain for answers.

So I throw myself on your collective mercy. A stop loss is to traders what the pull-pin is to a grenade, a safety feature designed to save you from blowing yourself up.

I expect a great piling on, as all you hardcore pros out there leap to the occasion by showing me that the only reason no one ever discusses ATR stop-losses is because the answers are so self-evident only a newbie fool would ever ask.

And I will thank you for it.


#2

Thank you for your extreme attention to detail, screenshots, examples and full information on the issue you’re experiencing. If only everyone that asked for help was this methodical, we’d progress through to resolution much faster.


I have checked in the system, and I don’t see any tickets from you at all, at least none that are tied to this account. If you have an alternative account with us, that would be another issue. That said, I’m not sure how we would have informed you that we don’t handled questions like this. The help desk ticketing system and live chat are for general support, technical support, and billing related inquiries. We ask that all trading related questions be directed to the forum, so that everyone may benefit from the responses that are generated. This particular query would definitely be best suited for remedying in the help desk.


In regards to the actual issue at hand, I don’t see where you’re doing anything wrong at all. You seem to have a thorough understanding of how the stop trigger and trailing trigger function. The fields are filled out correctly, and everything seems to be in order. I will say, however, that there was one other individual describing exactly what you are experiencing today. I personally was unable to replicate this problem. I checked every single market available around 2pm for both binaries and spreads. After testing them all and having them work flawlessly, the only conclusion I can come to at this moment is that the Nadex demo platform is on the fritz again.


The Nadex demo platform is their developers sandbox; playground if you will. It’s where they go to test out new code and experiment with new features for deployment. Regression testing, everything is done in this environment to make sure it works before it’s pushed over to the live / production platform. Occasionally they have faulty code that interferes with our connection to the demo platform entirely, or causes other odd behavior with our software.


Either way, I will have our developer look into this issue tonight as a top priority just to make sure it’s them, and not something that happened on our servers that caused the issue. I will likely not respond to this forum post again, as I don’t keep a watchful eye on it, but instead, you may open a ticket on the help desk, which is where most of my attention is held. In the help desk, we can track the issue though completion and ensure it gets resolved in a timely manor.


#3

Many thanks for taking the trouble to review this matter and offering such a solid and reassuring answer.

The good news is that there is indeed a real stop-loss function in ATS and that it works, at least on live accounts, if perhaps not for the moment on demos, which problem can now be set aside as an inconvenience, which with your help will soon be resolved.

This allows me to get on with the wider project, which it is worth mentioning, was originally inspired by by members roin50 and wmiller561, who both did experiments on Iron Condors, positing their results.

What does the stop loss issues have to do with Iron Condors, your ask?

At the risk of stating the obvious, unlike a common long market position where it is impossible to move the stop to break even when opening the trade, this is always possible with when selling volatility with, for example, an iron condor, since the trade profits as time passes so long as the price remains constant, rather than the other way around, as it is with any long the market (short vol) position.

This makes the iron condor a very low risk, dare I say virtually risk free trade since, thanks to the Straddle/Strangle calculator, you not only know your stop loss levels when entering the trade, but can place stop loss orders on those levels immediately.

In the spirit of roin50 and wmiller561 I hope to see if there might be some advantage to extract from selling premium in the wee hours of New York as volatility fades into the Asian open while, on the other hand, time value accumulates 12 to 15 hours before London morning.

It is said that Aphrodite buried the Golden Apple in Asia, and with nearly risk free long vol trades on the Nadex placed during the morning hours in Bangkok, I may have just found it. If I get some decent results, I’ll post them here, and we’ll starting the rapid expansion of Apex Investing Institute Asian membership from that point.

As to there being no record of my tickets concerning stop losses, I think the easiest way to find them may be just to ask around who’s been the most annoying person to deal with recently.

Otherwise you can look up tickets #5401, #54058 and #54056, which illustrate the stop-loss problem with several screenshots, raising the possibility that it is indeed a technical, rather than a trading/educational issue, with which opinion you seem now to concur.

I have already referred above to my mother and I can assure you that she would not approve at all were she to think that I was just making it all up about Help Desk having informed me that it does not handle matters such as those described in my stop-loss appeals, which indifference on their part is, as you say in your reply, all but unimaginable.

Reluctant as I am to air confidential matters in public, as long as a cloud hangs over the honorable family name, I have no choice but to quote directly from the Help Desk reply to ticket #54058, so my dear mother may rest in peace.

“The help desk and live chat support are for technical support and account/billing related issues. For questions such as yours, the forum is better suited. Our forum can be found here.”

There’s more, but that should suffice.

Thanks again for your efforts on my behalf. If nothing else, you demonstrate that the exceptional quality of Apex’s trading systems, indicators and software is matched by the intellectual caliber and seriousness of its staff. I’ll submit a ticket, as you suggest.

And I hope to pay you back with some Golden Apples.