Problem Understanding Trailing Stops with Power Plays


#1

I’ve read the Advanced Trailing Stop post and watched the training video. In addition, it was mentioned on one of the Open House webinars that using it is a valuable tool with Power Plays and/or Additional Setups. However, I am still having problems knowing what goes where.

Use these Sample Scenarios:

Buy a contract at $50. Take Profit at $95. Protect a minimum of $25 profit. Get out early with a loss of $25 if the market heads downward.

Sell a contract at $50. Take Profit at $5. Protect a minimum of $25 profit. Get out early with a loss of $25 if the market heads upward.

What numbers should go where?

Anthony


#2

Think the problem we might run into is trying to protect the $25 gain.

This is what I came up with.

Stop Trigger Value is $25… that is what we want to get out at if the market goes against us

Take Profit Value is $95… that is the number we want to take profit at.

Trailing Trigger Value… I set that at $85… the trailing stop wont become active until the BID (in this case because its a BUY) hits this amount.

Trailing Dollar Offset… Set that at $10… because we are looking to get out at $75… $85 - 10 = $75

With how volatile binaries are… I could get stopped out pretty quickly.

If you wanted to start trailing earlier at say $80… the $80 would go into the Trailing Trigger Value.

And $5 would be the new Trail offset.,


#3

Marked moved in my favor… The Bid Price had moved all the way up to $92 Therefore my Stop Trigger Price moved to $82 Since I am trailing by $10

Ended up getting stopped out at $85.75. Think the amount worked in my favor because the bid did not reach $95


#4

EXCELLENT DISPLAY of explaining this by doing an actual (Demo) trade of the scenario provided.

I seek a clear understanding of the Trailing Stop to use for the Power Plays, etc. If all else fails, the goal here was to at least get a sample template to follow.

For the most part, I understand, but there are a few things that need explaining:

Why did you get stopped out at $85.75, if $75 was the minimum locked in profit point? (Is it the $10 Offset?) Does this mean that using the $10 Offset will put you at least $10 higher than whatever minimum profit you set?

In addition, lots of people have an even bigger confusion with TS for Spreads. My guess is instead of using dollar values, take the given indicative and add/subtract your tick values. Am I saying this right?

Anthony


#5

Got stopped out at $85.75 because that was probably where my trailing stop got me out at.

From the active Trailing stop ticket you can see that the Stop Trigger Price was $82. because the Bid Price had reached $92… and I was trailing by $10.

Price probably moved up a couple more dollars and then when the market reversed, it quickly hit the stop loss.

Problem doing it this way, is your trying to set up a minimum take profit level, while trying for even more profit.

Something like this may be a little easier

The Stop Trigger is $25

Take Profit Trigger is $90

However I didnt enter a Trailing Trigger Value… So it started trailing by $15 right away.

With Spreads, this is basically what I do.

Open Position and Enter Trail Offset. Then I will just enter any Take Profit order via standard Nadex ticket (gives me more freedom to change things around while keeping the initial trailing stop ticket open)

And you are correct… trailing the Spreads is based off the given Indicative. Exactly how you said/ worded it. (at least it made sense to me lol)

Think the initial indicative was 150.51 , so the initial stop trigger price was set at 150.21


#6

I’ve come back this post to refresh my knowledge on the Trailing Stop Plugin (along with reviewing the training video). It’s been a while since I’ve used it, and, even then, I didn’t use it much. After reviewing, I think I have a minimum understanding.

The current issue involves the use of Spreads. I’ve never done any Spread trading with this plugin, but I have to start doing it. Recently, I’ve had situations where the Trailing Stop could have saved me from losing money when the markets retraced.

If any Spread Trailing Stop Plugin examples could be posted here, it would be most helpful. (Even some extra Binary examples would be welcomed.)


#7

Easiest way for me…

Felt the Dow was going to sell off to end the day (just for example… not an actual trade)

So I shorted one contract… Felt $25 was a good amount to risk… So in the Trailing Trigger Offset field. I entered 25.

After clicking activate I was presented with the ticket.

At the time, the Nadex Indicative was at 24785 and with a BUY trailing stop of 25… my initial stop was 24810.

So if I am correct in thinking the market will go down… the stop trigger will keep trailing the indicative until I get stopped out

Just remember the trailing stop is based on the Nadex Indicative and not the Spread Price.


#8

I guess the issue I’m having is how to protect my profits.

For example: I initially want to protect a minimum of $20 profit, but the market keeps moving to the point where I have a potential $60 profit, and, yet, the market still continues to move to a higher profitable position. Is it possible to protect any surplus profit (or even a minimum set profit) if the market reverses?

Thanks again for your help.


#9

Apologizes… I guess I dreamed I wrote you back earlier :sleeping:

I see what you are saying

Where it says Trailing Trigger Price… you would enter the price of the Indicative. From your example, since you are looking to protect a $20 profit, probably would want to look to start trailing at about $35 profit.

Based on the screenshot… the Indicative is at 25191.53. I would round that up to 25192

So for the Trailing Trigger Price, you would enter 25227 (25192 + 35) and use 15 as the Trailing Trigger Offset. (of course you can use whatever numbers you want… just make sure you give yourself a little breathing room)

Problem I was running into, was the initial stop loss. The one when you originally open the trade. When I tried entering everything on the same ticket, It would always fire off early. So I wonder if having two separate tickets would work better. One for the initial trailing stop/stop loss and then one for protecting the profits if it reaches that. Of course you would have to actively monitor the trade and then close the ticket that had the initial stop loss/trailing stop on it.


#10

I’ll try the example you posted. If it’s successful, this could be one of the greatest parts to my financial success. Thanks.

I didn’t quite understand why the ticket would fire off early when you put everything on the same ticket. (Would it be the case to not put in an initial stop loss, but instead, put it in the Stop Trigger Price?) Maybe two separate tickets may the the answer. Either way, can you show an example of this issue?

i’ve seen on other postings that many of the problems previously mentioned may be with Nadex or the Nadex Demo. Is this true? If so, do these issues affect the Live Nadex platform?

I’ve been wondering why this tool is not promoted or discussed more often by Apex Management and the Apex Community. This seems to be a great tool to help many members retain more profits. Judging by the number of views, members are interested. This post and YOUR INPUT have really helped me and may really be helping others. Thank again.


#11

Here are two trades I did:

I obviously wanted to maximize profits, but I also wanted to protect a minimum of $20 on each trade.

Using the Apex Scanner and Trailing Trigger:

For the Spread Sell, I entered 153.29 in the Trailing Trigger Price and 15 in the Trail Offset.

For the Binary Sell, I entered 8 in the Trailing Trigger Price and 5 in the Trail Offset.

Both trades expired profitable without any triggering (although the binary came close at 11).

If my goal was to protect a minimum of $20 (with Nadex fees added in), did I do this right?
If not, what should I have done?

I admit I was somewhat confused, particularly with the Spread Trigger.


#12

Ticket could fire off early for numerous reasons. Maybe I didnt have the Nadex platform and the Apex platform in their own separate windows, perhaps there was an issue with the scanner itself that day… maybe I was trying to do to much on the computer at one time… or the internet was acting up etc etc.

This is what I put in for tonight

Since the Indicative was at 150.63… put the initial stop at 150.93. (so I would lose around $30)

Set the Trailing Trigger price for 30 ticks (150.33) with a trail of 15.

If it goes in my favor, triggering the Trailing Price and then immediately goes against me… I should still have a profit of around $15 (not including fees)

Nadex’s Demo Platform is their “playground” So any new things they may want to try with the platform, they will test there first obviously. Since the scanner is an outside party’s doing… Apex’s programmers will have change the scanners coding to get it to match with Nadex’s demo platform.

Personally, I cant recall having an issue using the scanner with the Live platform. But then again… the only thing Ive used the scanner for is just to trail and most likely I had already taken a profit before the trail was even hit.

I believe the scanner is mentioned with every Nadex webinar… Ive been slacking and havent attended one in awhile.

As for your examples… I would be cautious trying this with binary options… Just because they are so volatile. Ive had trades go against me near the end by as much as 10 ticks even though the Indicative was 40 ticks away from the strike price in my favor. Obviously the trades expired profitable, but there could be a very good chance of being stopped out early based on what you were asking the scanner to do.

With the spread, it is hard to tell because I dont know what the price of the Indicative was when you first opened the trade.

Based on the screenshot itself. Assuming its $5 to enter the trade. $3 for the initial spread and $2 for Nadex’s fees.

Its at 153.55, so if you wanted to protect $20 with a 15 tick trail.

153.55 - 20 (how much you want to make) - 15 (how much you want to trail by) - 5 (price of spread/fees)

153.15 is what would go into the Trailing Trigger Price and then 15 ticks would be your Trail Offset.

As a side note… Ive been in the trade Im using as my example for around an hour and there have been no issues with the scanner…


#13

Nice way to explain the Trailing Trigger Price by using an equation.

A Spread Sell for the Trailing Trigger Price would be:

Current Indicative - Minimum Profit - Trailing - Fees

(Using the previous example) 153.55 - 20 - 15 - 5

You said you didn’t know the price of the indicative at entry but assumed the price to enter the trade was $3 for the initial spread and $2 for Nadex fees. Are you referring to the difference between the indicative at entry (probably assuming 153.58) and the current indicative (153.55) plus $2 Nadex fees?

I’m going to guess a Spread Buy for the Trailing Trigger Price would be:

Current Indicative + Minimum Profit + Trailing + Fees

(Using the previous example) 153.55 + 20 + 15 + 5

Concerning problems with the Trailing Trigger, it looks like I’m entering the wrong information. So, I’m going to try these equations on some demo trades.

Looking forward to the results of your sample trade.


#14

Actually I was referring to the bid/offer (ask) price

Not the best example. But you can see that most of them have a 1 or 2 tick difference. So you will be down that initial amount when you first open the trade.

The amount from the other night was actually 3 ticks between the bid and offer. So I was initially down $3… and with $2 in Nadex fees, for the $5

So we know generally your initial amount to get into a trade is between $3 and $5 (including the fees) I just find it easier to assume the $5 and go with that.

If you are aiming to protect a minimum of $20… it may just be easier to use a standard 40 ticks either above or below the current Indicative for any Forex trades. The Commodities and Futures will most likely be different… so you would have to change the amount of the initial bid/offer and then you will be good to go.

As long as you are using the Daily NTM spreads… then the price of the spread should be really close to the Indicative and should match it tick for tick in movement.

I just put that trade on as an example… as soon as I was done writing the post, I finished up an email and went to bed lol.

Believe the market went all the way up to 151 later on that day… So i would have been stopped out of the trade, if I had kept it on.


#15

After doing a few trades, what you’ve explained in this post has really helped me (and hopefully others).

Here is a Wall 30 (YM) Sell Spread at 25990 that I got for $10.

On the plugin, I set the Trailing Trigger Price at 25968 (25990 - $20 profit - $2 Nadex fee) with a Trail Offset of 10.

It triggered and closed out at 25964 for a $24 profit which is slightly greater than my minimum $20 profit goal.



The only issue I’m having is that once the plugin is triggered, it almost always closes the trade moments later. I’m not sure, but I think it has to do with the Trail Offset number I’m using (which is usually 10).

What Trail Offset number should I have used to prevent immediate closing so as to maximize profit, while, at the same time, protecting a $20 minimum profit?

How does the size of the number used in the Trail Offset affect how soon a trade closes?


#16

Glad you are able to have some success!!

That is really interesting about the plugin firing off almost immediately. Dont think it should do that unless the price is actually hit.

Try increasing the Trail Offset… You said you are using 10… try 20 and then if still continues to fire off almost instantly, try like 50. That way there will be no question that its not functioning the way we think it should

If that happens… I would submit a help desk ticket and they would be able to look in to it / explain things better…

Because the way I understand it, is if you have you the Trailing Trigger Price at say 70… and then the Trail Offset at 10… then the trade should not close unless the Indicative price hits 60 (which apparently isnt happening)


#17

Most recent trade:

Did a 3pm Daily Straddle about 21 hours before expiration.
Sell GBP/JPY 152.20-154.70 @ 154.50 (for $20)
Buy GBP/JPY 154.70-157.20 @ 155.37 (for $67)

The Buy closed out overnight at 155.80 with an early take profit of $20.

Although the Sell was still open in the morning, the market was moving down, potentially making this Straddle trade potentially profitable on both sides. Decided to try the Trail Stop Trigger.

The market was moving up and down but decided on the Trailing Trigger Price of 154.05 and the Trail Offset of 25 (increased it from the usual 10 that I use).

Once it triggered, the Stop Trigger Price appeared at 154.29. It stayed at that price when the market moved up. When the market went down, the price went down with it (trailing, I guess).

This is where I get confused:

The ticket closed. I remembered to get a screen shot of the ticket before I closed it. 153.91 was the price that was showing.

The Stop Trigger Price was 154.07, the Trailing Trigger Price was 154.05, and the Trail Offset was 25 ticks.

The notification that was sent to me said the closing price was 153.81 which was different from the 153.91 that showed on the closed ticket.

What does all of this mean? Why did the ticket close where it did?

Any significant profit made was fine with me. Before the Trailing, I chose 153.60 as my early Take Profit. Ironically, I think it got to that point (after the ticket closed). Either way, I still made a profit, and the Trail Stop Trigger is starting to work for me.

An earlier example:

A few days ago, I was in an NQ trade right before it skyrocketed upward.

Buy US Tech 100 6840.0-6850.0 @ 6844.6

My goal was a minimum Profit of $30. So, I set the Trailing Trigger Price at 6848 and Trail Offset at 10.

(Note: This is part of the closed ticket. I didn’t make a copy of the original ticket.)

When the ticket was triggered, it closed at 6843.9 and my notification said 6844.9, which, either way, was nowhere near what I wanted.

I made $1. I don’t remember how far up NQ went, but I know it went way past the Spread max of 6850.

What happened here? Did I enter a wrong number?

With this Trail Stop Trigger, is there a difference on the use of ticks for the Trail Offset between Forex and Futures/Commodities? If so, what is it?

Just to let you know:
Other members are monitoring this post. Considering the financial potential, it’s sad that many have simply given up on this tool. What you are doing here is really helpful. I just wish an updated webinar could be done.


#18

Try changing the Offset in the Order Settings to a lower number

Think that might have something to do with you getting out of trades at a much different price.

Go for the longer Daily Spreads instead of the Intra-day ones. Especially with NQ… With how the Nadex NQ Spreads tick (0.1) vs how the NQ futures tick (0.25) your directional trades will quickly become Premium collection trades.

There shouldnt be a difference between Forex and Futures/Commodities ticks with the Trailing Stop.


#19

Totally forgot about the Offset in the Order Settings. I’ll change this to see what happens.

As always, thanks for your help.