MVP Webinar

#1

This webinar covers MVP and a bit of news stuff as well. I will make shorter ones but this gets the training up so you can get going.

A few important points to remember is make sure the trend is going with you to avoid chop. Few tips for this:

  1. Make sure predictor is moving higher for a long signal or lower for a short signal not flat (those little arrows should be advancing in your favor before you enter)
  2. If the predictor goes flat down arrows ie for multiple bars then flips to flat up arrows for multiple bars back to back then know without a doubt the market is in chop wait for a clear trend before taking a trade
  3. Make sure the volatile trendine/offset line is advancing in your direction
  4. Make sure the underlying price is not touching the volatile trend line.

When the 4 above are true then follow the signal…

  • Rules TTPC
  • Trend Trading Premium Collection
  • Only 4 Min (not 5/10 etc...)- use the 2/3 to see it coming... but don't jump the gun. Don't enter on a 1 2 or 3 min (we are testing 3 min but have not yet decided to use it.
  • This alerts you to hey go to scanner and be ready
  • Signal flips WAIT SETUP - confirm strikes open tickets on scanner (later video)
  • Wait On the breakout no entry till breakout use ticket to help with this (ticket video later video)
  • Triggre entry 1 tick below
  • Worst Entry is 15 on a sell 85 on a buy (ideally and often better) ideally around 80 or so on a sell and 20 on a buy.
  • You can take additional sequential entries
  • Conserviative Stop moving the stop with the offset line or predictor line after they surpass strike(whichever is closer choice A or whichever is further choice B) (advantage less loss on losses but more losses)
  • Moderate Stop Wait till it hits strike (advantage less stop outs but larger losses)
  • Aggressive keep stop at the offset line - during flat markets - ie pre news etc.. when 1,2,3, line up and 5/10 line up are not counter trending (they may show a reversal but are they flat or trending...)
  • Moderate and Aggresive moving to convervative ie when 2 and 3 flip switch to convervative regardless
  • Moderate and Aggresive if possible watched correlated markets if they flip then switch to convervative (ie TF - watching YM, USD/JPY watching EUR/JPY and or EUR/JPY) etc..
  • (don't exit just because they flipped just use them to be more cautious)
  • Dark Zone Warning try to be out when all possible before 2 minute expiration time
#2

Can you please explain how to use the APEX diagnostic bars as confirmation for the MVP trading system? In the setup video you showed us how to set them up but didn’t really get into how to use them with the MVP trading.

Can you explain when to use the 5 and 10 minute charts? I believe you are using them to detect direction of market, right? But, am I only taking signals on the 1,2,3,4 minute charts when they are in the direction of the 5 and 10 minute charts? Also, do the 5 and 10 minute charts have to agree as far as market direction is concerned when taking trades on the 1,2,3,4 minute charts?

#3

Great questions make sure not to cross rules on systems.

We show how to setup different charts (ie 5 10 diagnostic) for different systems this does not mean yiu use them all on each system. Only use the ones as explained for that specific system ie 4 min for ttpc for entries. Using 1,2,3 for early detection but not entering. Possible 1, 2 , 3 10 may be used for switching from aggressive or moderate to conservative trailing stop.

We don’t use them in the systems provided ttpc amd epc for confirmation.

They are for apex elite.

We are working on some totally unique systems but not on the mvp epc and ttpc but are testing out all system rules and best contracts to use.

5 min we use for the vspike at deviations under deviation trading system video under deviation in the menu.

The 10 minute we use for long term trend. For the 10 min trailing stop trailing system for elite. But we will be adding ot

#4

After reading your answer, am I correct in saying that the 5 and 10 minute charts are not necessary for trading the two MVP strategies you have shown so far?

#5

  1. Can you explain why you set your ticket to the trigger price and not the MVP setup price?

  2. I would think you would want to get in as low/high as possible which would be the MVP setup price not the trigger price.

3 Also, in the video you showed that we shouldn’t go more than three pips above/below the strike price when looking for a possible contract.

4 However, when you were explaining this you were explaining it using the MVP setup price.

5 Since we do not use this price to look for possible contracts did you mean we shouldn’t go more than three pips above/below the trigger price when looking for possible contracts?

Edited added numbers to breakdown statements points easier to reply

#6

You are confusing the contract with the trigger price.

  1. The Trigger Price is the Nadex Indicative trigger price we are entering on We want the market to have “momentum” moving in our preferred direction

  2. The “Setup Price” is the approximate strike (if doing ITM) that we are looking for. You are actually wanting to get as far away as possible on the strike you select to allow for prooper risk management and collect premium quickly.

  3. Correct… but note as stated i meant 3 ticks above on a buy - obviously the lower the better on the strike on a buy or 3 ticks below on a sell at the closest - obviously the higher the better

  4. That is correct i was using the setup price to find the strike price.

  5. NO do not look for a few ticks around the trigger price this is the indicatives entry price trigger has nothing to do with the strike chosen for TTPC - this would be an entirely different strategy ie an ATM or OTM strategy which would require completely different rules and we are testing all combinations and will post new strategies as we find consistency with them.

Our goal here is to get a strike as far away from the market as possible that is ITM and at our max risk or less- with the market going in the direction of our trade (if we buy market is going up) if we sell market is going down) to make money on premium and ideally movement as well.

#7

Ok, I think I got it but let me make sure.

  1. Setup signal alerts
  2. Look at binary scanner to find a strike (contract) price within 3 pips of the setup buy/sell price. If it is a buy then the price should be no more than 3 pips above, if it is a sell then the price should be no more than 3 pips below the strike (contract) price.
  3. Once you receive the breakout buy/sell signal enter the trigger price in the stop trigger function on the ticket.

If I am correct on this then I have one question that I am not understanding.

If I find a strike (contract) price based on the setup signal price, then enter the ticket with the trigger price at the breakout signal, doesn’t it make more sense to just find a strike (contract) price at the trigger price at the breakout signal and purchase that?

#8

1 yes 2 yes for ttpc 3 enter the ticket before not after the trigger price is hit at the close of the setup bar…that’s the whole point of the stop trigger plugin

Extra question: You dont wait on the trigger to hit to submit the stop trigger ticket. You are missing the point here of what premium collection is. Premium collection on nadex binaries is when you buy a strike lower than the underlying market so if the market goes up you profit & if the market stays flat you profit & if the market moves against you some you still profit. Premium collection on a sell is choosing a strike that is higher than the market if the market goes down you profit & if the market stays flat you profit & if the market goes up some you still profit. Plus you know a binary will be worth about 50 no matter how much time is left to expiration if tye underlying hits the strike so this males risk management possible and easy. If you do an atm strike like your suggesting you lose every edge just listed… If you enter a strike that is at the trigger price then your strike will be atm How will you exit to manage risk your already at your strike? How will you collect premium it’s at the strike? How will you still profit if the market moves against some you as you have no room since your strike is at the market. your turning a 70 to 85% + (higher with rulea followed) probability trade into a 50/50 by doing an atm strike at the trigger price. This is a premium collection strategy and system so your binary has to be itm if you are following the rules laid out for ttpc otherwise your doing something totally different (which is fine if you’ve tested it backwards forwards demoed it and have stats showing it’s good) we’ve tested atm like your suggesting and I don’t recommend it.

#9

If the goal is to get into the trade at the lowest/highest point and get a good premium I don’t see why you wouldn’t just submit a ticket at the setup price. What is the point of the trigger price. If you send me a setup signal with a buy price of 1.0060 and a trigger price of 1.0065, why wouldn’t I just find a contract around 1.0060 and submit that for less than $85? Especially since most of the time the setup price is way in the money.

#10

As the setup does not yet have the momentum confirmation. In addition it’s not way itm all tye time it depends in instrument time of day etc… I want way itm with momentum that’s the point of trend trading premium collection.

There is a setting for instant signal that eliminates the setup and breakout and just gives setup…

You are free to do it however you want. This is merely one of many you possible applications. This is one we have tested and traded live substantially. When all is said and done (tested demo and live) we will probably be rolling out about a dozen mvp systems. After they have been vetted. I probably spend 2 to 4 hours a day conversing with lead apex traders about application, methods, rules…challenges… risk reward probabilities pros cons application challenges, duplicatability etc… The system was not just a simple idea its the result of months of discussion price analyzation programming testing and live trading. However these are the rules for this specific system. I’m all about diving into it amd other methods…but I don’t understand your resistance to it. This is a system based on trend trading (momentum breakout) deep itm premium collectiom. Its what it is… Im cool with the questions; im just trying to get the resistance…Is it theory, understanding, or application results that is making you want to bend the rules of the system?

#11

12 diffrent MVP systems? (I don’t care, what ever makes me money I’d use) do you see this number collapsing? (is this how apex started? With a half dozen systems that focused down?)

I see that your building MVP into the apex (as added triggers), do you see MVP becoming redundant once it’s incorporated into 3.0 or do you see it advancing as a “apex light”?

#12

Darrell, First let me say that I have nothing but respect for your ability and expertise and in no way am I challenge or question any of your trading strategies. I am simply asking questions because I do not understand. I very much want to understand the MVP system and use it in a prosperous way. I have watched your webinar four times now and I still have the same questions. I am an old dog and maybe I just can’t learn a new trick. Can you please tell me if I am at least understanding the rules?

  1. Setup signal
  2. Search on the binary scanner for a strike price equal to the setup signal price or +/- 3 pips depending on trading direction.
  3. Open up the stop trigger function and enter the trigger price plus $85/$15 depending on trading direction.
  4. Breakout signal
  5. Activate stop trigger ticket

Regarding the activating the stop trigger ticket, if price has passed by the trigger price before I can activate my ticket what do I do? Do I wait for a pullback to the trigger price and then enter or do I just move on? I know in the video you had two tickets open but what happens when there is not enough expiry time to have two tickets open?

One last question and I think I will be done harassing you, at least for now…lol. Yesterday, cannot remember time or currency pair, I submitted a ticket and then I submitted a stop loss trigger using the strike price with a $40 limit. The market was moving quite a bit and blew right past my trigger without ever activating it. Can you tell me why that would happen? It reached my strike price and it was above my $40 limit but it didn’t activate it.

Thank you for all your help Darrell.

#13

Darrell, Love the videos. You mentioned in one that if the 4 minute flips, it might be a good time to get out and move on. What would be the minimum on getting out? If, the 3 minute flips, or if the 1 and 2 minute flip? Thanks

#14

Hay MASTER “D”,

Long time member, 1st time posting. First of all thank you for all your hard work and for giving us the ROPE to true trading pat (been around few with lots of pot hole…LOL).

My question: on MVP, ttpc system, what to do if you are long on the trade and you get reverse signal to go short within 2 hrs period on 4 min? do we exit long and enter the short side?

#15

Hi there :slight_smile:

Congrats on the first post many more are welcome the best way to learn is ask questions. Don’t be shy. Also use the nadex trading pit there is almost always someone in there.

You are welcome :slight_smile: Its only possible to do what we do here as so many traders contribute in the website, forum management, videos, elite room, trading pit, research and more.

To answer both of the above. If you got a short breakout yes you would most likely want to exit… its rare that if you get it you won’t be out already but it does happen. I usually don’t do it just on a setup i just leave my stop trigger as is from the last offset or predictor line as it may flip back in my favor or if it gives a breakout then i would exit.

Sharpie specifically say the 1, 2, and 3 flip and the say 5, 10 is also in the opposing direction. You look at the range indicator and its near the maximum expectation for that hour. That would be a potential early exit. But don’t make it to hard or to complicated :slight_smile:

#16

Thank you and no offense taken. I welcome you challenging me and my strategies. I improve my strategies due to challenges from multiple traders and it means you are critically thinking about it so you will get it :slight_smile:

1-5

Yes but add in… (look at current and next expiration 2 hours or less to expiration of ITM contracts) open both - fill in the first one with stop plugin and submit it - have the second one then ready to fill in - in case when it gets to the trigger price you can’t get the price you want submit the next hour out and cancel the pending/working order that won’t get filled at the desired price.

Note + 3 pips is on a buy - obviously the lower the better no matter how low -3 pips is on a sell - obviously the higher the better no matter how high

You are correct on some expirations on some markets - ie EUR/JPY 11 PM there will be no 12 PM (note on march 3rd Nadex is adding night time intradays on GBP/USD and AUD/USD :slight_smile:

If the price is moving fast you can just manually submit the limit order you don’t have to use the stop plugin.

If price is to low in value you have to make your own judgement call. Move on or let it retrace. The way i would best say to make this is if i where going to let it retrace some see if 1,2,3 agree with me. See if 10 minute agrees with me. (ie same direction). I also would look at where i am at in the range do i have a bit to go still if so then i may be willing to let it oscillate some. If i am near the limit for that expiration (using the expected range indicator) i would probably just stay away i missed the initial entry. In either case i would be picker about price - ie i would use $80 for a buy and $20 for a sell if im going to enter after the breakout.

I really would need to see a screenshot of the ticket and the chart to know what really happened. Watch this 5 minute video right now :slight_smile: and you can take screenshots at anytime. Good for forum post, trading pit post, elite room post, and your trading journal in general. You can even record short videos etc… and share them easily. http://apexinvesting.net/forum/how-share-charts-other-traders-130/how-download-install-use-jing-screencast-432.html

Some basic questions could be A) do you mean the trigger never activated or do you mean the order was submitted and working but never filled (check order history in nadex to see if submitted but not filled)

B) if the first choice did you verify the nadex indicative was quoting? Occasionally the indicative does not quote so it would not trigger. Its rare but it does occur.

C) if the second choice - if the market moves fast and you have a limit of 40 then that may be to tight you may want to have it lower ie 30 (worst limit is basically what is the worst limit order your willing to submit) - ie i don’t want to have a stop loss and end up buying back at 5 i would rather just eat the 5 and see if it comes back…

D) did you have this on during news - ie during the AUD/USD news - the market will move so fast during news that it may not work at that time… i have not checked it as around news i am always manually entering orders (but the first minute or so it can be quite crazy)

E) there could have been an error in the way the ticket was filled in etc…

The above answers may help but in reality without some sort of screenshot and details it is hard to answer the question.

[quote=dragonflynfamily]Darrell, First let me say that I have nothing but respect for your ability and expertise and in no way am I challenge or question any of your trading strategies. I am simply asking questions because I do not understand. I very much want to understand the MVP system and use it in a prosperous way. I have watched your webinar four times now and I still have the same questions. I am an old dog and maybe I just can’t learn a new trick. Can you please tell me if I am at least understanding the rules?

  1. Setup signal
  2. Search on the binary scanner for a strike price equal to the setup signal price or +/- 3 pips depending on trading direction.
  3. Open up the stop trigger function and enter the trigger price plus $85/$15 depending on trading direction.
  4. Breakout signal
  5. Activate stop trigger ticket

Regarding the activating the stop trigger ticket, if price has passed by the trigger price before I can activate my ticket what do I do? Do I wait for a pullback to the trigger price and then enter or do I just move on? I know in the video you had two tickets open but what happens when there is not enough expiry time to have two tickets open?

One last question and I think I will be done harassing you, at least for now…lol. Yesterday, cannot remember time or currency pair, I submitted a ticket and then I submitted a stop loss trigger using the strike price with a $40 limit. The market was moving quite a bit and blew right past my trigger without ever activating it. Can you tell me why that would happen? It reached my strike price and it was above my $40 limit but it didn’t activate it.

Thank you for all your help Darrell.[/quote]

#17

The Apex Strategy has always been the same it has simply been improved on over the year (However with the developments there are about 1/2 dozen ways to trade it) MVP is not so much a added trigger on Apex Elite as it is a system in itself or a single filter and trailing stop method.

  • Profit Poppers (scalping for those who like to scalp the underlying)
  • Trend Catchers (apex trades for big moves)
  • Elite Rules (including scaling in)
  • BMX Reverals (for counter trend traders)
  • Elite with MVP filter and trailing stop (less trades but bigger moves and simpler rules)
  • MVP Reversals (for longer term counter trend trades)
  • Daily bar ATM binary, scaling in strategy (being tested)
  • All the above on diagnostic or time based bars ie 10 min, 60 min, 240 min, daily, weekly etc…
  • Applying all the above to futures/forex/cfds/equities (stock/ETF’s), options (name the strategy…), binaries, and spreads, plus hedging underlyings with Nadex spreads or options.

We will soon be releasing within a couple weeks or less how to do the APEX Elite MVP reversals (just waiting on a couple updates to the beta MVP confluence indicator to be completed). It is simple and for big moves over a day or less. It is counter trend trading the apex when the confluence indicator flips on 1,2,3,4 time frames and the MVP is counter the apex itself. See below.

02.14.2014-05.02.png1920x1006

I see us capping at around 12 or so strategies on forex/future/stock short term scalping, and longer term trading, binary MVP (1,2,3,4) EPC, binary MVP 4 TTPC, 10 min TTPC & spread & OTM, morning and news based applications Strangles and Straddles, Spreads on 10 min bars, using the future expected range channels, and expected close indicator (about 2 weeks out). OTM trades on a few systems.

Plus we have Trend Catcher, Magnet Trades and News Trades

Once Elite 3.0 automation is released our next goal will be to automated more and more of the MVP strategies for automated trading on underlyings, and as FCM’s come on line for Nadex for automated signals and auto signal services.

In essence the strategies are made to help traders with:

  1. Different account sizes
  2. Various Schedules (20 minutes to hours on end to set and forget)
  3. Risk tolerance levels
  4. Preferred instrument types
  5. Scalp, Swing, Trend, Contrarian, Neutral, and Random Market (strangle/straddle) preferences
  6. Scalpers, Intraday Traders, Medium Term Traders and Longer term traders

The varying strategies are made/being made to help traders with any combination of the above preferences and to ensure liquidity in any market by providing a variety of systems on a variety of markets.

As the systems expand we are working hard behind the scenes on a complete step by step program with the webite that walk someone through S12 to find the best strategies for them

  1. Sanity (ie i hate holding positions overnight others hate day trading)
  2. Steward (account size will determine what you can or can’t do (whether it be to big or to small - ie want to day trade but don’t have 25k for stocks etc… then forex, mini futures, binaries, spreads etc…)
  3. Schedule (what hours can you trade if not during the day then stocks is a no go no matter how big your account is unless doing after market placement of limit and stop limit orders)
  4. Select (what markets will you focus on - impacted by the above 3)
  5. Socialize (connecting you to other traders whether it be through the forum, elite trade room or nadex trading pit)
  6. Structure (making sure you have hardward, software, internet, platform, brokers etc… at lowest cost and best performance)
  7. Strategy (what instrument will you use to trade the market - ie forex - spot forex, CFD’s, forex futures, nadex spreads, nadex binaries etc…and when doing so will you do Scalp, Swing, Trend, Contrarian, Neutral, and Random Market (strangle/straddle) etc…
  8. System (what rules for entry and exits will you use)
  9. Style (what methods will you use to read the markets techincals, fundamentals, statistics, and seasonals (all pieces we are building into the MVP and Elite systems)
  10. Scan (Choosing the fx pair, the stock, the spread or binary on the future)
  11. Synchronize (Planning your trade and now trading your plan)
  12. Survey (Journal, lessons, what did you do right to repeat, and wrong to avoid in the future)

The goal is to help a trader from what is a OHLC bar newbie to a experienced floor trader ensure they master the above 12 steps and progress through them as quickly as possible to make money as fast as possible. This forum is the beginning of my long desire vision to put all needed trading knowledge for the above in order. It won’t all happen overnight but we have made great progress.

As stated above MVP will not be redundant to Elite 3.0 but rather complimentary.

I see MVP being for a variety of varying (from minutes to months with a lot of additional binary strategies in addition to underlying forex, futures, spreads strategies where Elite is either A for scalpers, B medium term trend traders, or C for Long term traders and will have maybe 1-3 binary strategies at most.

Sorry long answer to a couple short questions :slight_smile:

[quote=blackadder]12 diffrent MVP systems? (I don’t care, what ever makes me money I’d use) do you see this number collapsing? (is this how apex started? With a half dozen systems that focused down?)

I see that your building MVP into the apex (as added triggers), do you see MVP becoming redundant once it’s incorporated into 3.0 or do you see it advancing as a “apex light”?[/quote]

#18

Thanks for reply,

Man you are up early (4:30 reply…wow)…early bird…LOL love MVP. couple of ideas.

  1. using MVP, TTPC with ATM spreads for scalping or even longer period (with the stop/loss).
  2. using it on DAILY charts (say 60 min bar) for longer trend.

Nino.

#19

Thank you Darrell, I think I understood about 2/3’ds of that :rolleyes: But as I understand that…different methods for different trade times, bankrolls, time to trade, and temperaments

I think the Step by step is a grand idea as I’ve been stalled here for months, decided to focus on apex elite (have to learn something first),…struggled with my Achilles heal (BMX)got distracted with tales of 3.0 and decided to wait (Silly me). MVP looks easy to learn, Has a low loss rate and uses only binary’s (as apposed to a complicated list of bird and bug names in news and P3 that I’ve glossed over because I was going for elite) …back to my point… A Start here flowchart (if bankroll is X do Y, If trading times are t then start at S) would go a long way to pointing to “newbies” (new too old hat) what they should focus on first.(and second, and third) rather that stalling out.

I think MY question boiled down to; If I take the spinach and go full Popeye (let the Google translators have fun with that turn of a phrase :D) And slam into the current MVP,Once 3.0 comes out, will I be switching gears to go elite, or will elite be the better fit…or should MVP be my focus…so many small nagging questions BLAH!

#20
  1. not a fan of using it on ATM speads on mvp no risk control - as time passes when it goes otm - better off otm or itm - weve tested this 6 ways from sunday… - now if doing larger time frame then yes definitely possible - but less trades and still no risk control - we are testing about half a dozen daily hourly 4 hour 10 minute etc… combos right now (have been for a while) once we finalize results and can make it ABC :slight_smile: we will roll em out (no ETA)

[quote=hiarhi]Thanks for reply,

Man you are up early (4:30 reply…wow)…early bird…LOL love MVP. couple of ideas.

  1. using MVP, TTPC with ATM spreads for scalping or even longer period (with the stop/loss).
  2. using it on DAILY charts (say 60 min bar) for longer trend.

Nino.[/quote]